What would be the arguments against a layout like in the Dash to Panel extension? This proposal is getting very close.

I would totally love it, specially with the double super key shortcut for the app picker, I doubt the devs will like it, but at the very least I wish it could be implemented as an official extension in the likes of how the applications menu and window list extensions are official

I am a HUGE Dash to panel user and fan, this would make me love GNOME even more, I beg you to implement it at least as an extension

💯 This is absolutely beautiful! Please implement this!

I like this mockup, however, if it is implemented, I’d like to:

• move the panel back to the top;
• remove activities button (I have always removed the hot corner, incl the activities icon and text—I use keyboard shortcuts heavily 😉);
• move the clock back to the centre.

As long as I can have this, I am impatiently awaiting the implemention of it! 😉

Hi! I've observed one interesting thing while looking at your Session view, but maybe I'm just looking for it and that's why I see it. So, I want to ask you (and every reader, actually) to look at that view in full-screen like if you're working with some app in everyday "it's fine" situation. Do that and try to remember things that you're seeing. After, do same at your actual desktop, and compare results. Only after that read the next paragraph of this message.

Don't read further this line until you've completed the experiment above, unless you don't want to participate in it.

I'm using a 15" laptop at the desk, and I find that I'm seeing the center and lower parts of the screen more often, and so I'm not really noticing the black top bar. But when it's at bottom — it's striking my eyes with all of its eternal blackness, and I'm not very happy with it.

That is exactly why I prefer the panel at the top and why I asked for optional bottom-placement. Even when I have to use Windows, I move its panel to the top.

The removal of the app menu might cause problems when you want to close apps without them running in the background. When I press the close button on a flatpak app, it still keeps running in the background. I can quit the app in it's entirety using the app menu and pressing Quit.

Would there still be an easy way to just quit the entire app without opening system monitor? I feel like this might be a bit of a security problem.

Also the visibility of background apps is a bit lacking in my opinion. Perhaps indicate in the app grid and dock if an app is still open in the background and close it fully from there. There are already indicators perhaps expand them a bit.

Please don't forget the biggest picture.

The top bar currently is a waste of space. A centre clock also gets in the way of window movement. Furthermore, the "hot corner" design is completely flawed when it comes to multi screen layouts.

Perhaps the best alternative to having the bar at the bottom would be to instead have the bottom of the screen trigger the overview upon a swipe up gesture or perhaps a click. Solving tablet users and not alienating the top bar die hards.

And to solve the time/date area, perhaps a non-intrusive Chrome OS like start menu could fit in that corner.

@turbine1991, as a top panel die hard and keyboardist, I prefer to have no hot coner nor swipe actions on desktop, while customisable swipe actions on phone/tablet.

Please don't forget the biggest picture.

The top bar currently is a waste of space. […] Furthermore, the "hot corner" design is completely flawed when it comes to multi screen layouts.

While I do get the bigger picture, I don’t like it.

I use the top panel as a status bar, i.e. I put there information I want to see all the time (like cpu and ram usage, systray icons, battery/network/bt info, etc). I don’t want there to be anything else (like Activities button or app name). I used to want to have there the app menu (as Unity in Ubuntu had or macOS has), but I don’t think I’ll be implemented anymore.

Therefore for me the top panel is not a waste of space and bottom panel is out of sight (for me at least).

A centre clock also gets in the way of window movement.

I want it to be centred even on Android! 😉

And 99 % of the time, I use apps in fullscreen. The only movement I do is to switch between windows using Alt+Tab and Alt+` and occasionally Super+Up/Down/Right/Left. 😛

Perhaps the best alternative to having the bar at the bottom would be to instead have the bottom of the screen trigger the overview upon a swipe up gesture or perhaps a click. Solving tablet users and not alienating the top bar die hards.

As I said, I’d like the panel to be shown 100 % of time at the top, no panel hiding and swiping to show it. I don’t care what the setting is or what other options users have, just keep this my preference as one of the options.

As for overview, I want to access it via Super/kbd> key only on desktop and via swipe down from top panel/edge only on phone/tablet. I should be able to disable every other access type.

And to solve the time/date area, perhaps a non-intrusive Chrome OS like start menu could fit in that corner.

I don’t want any menu on the panel except for the clock menu and the network/user/etc menu we already have. I don’t care if it gets implemented, I just want to have an option to disable it.

PS—I don’t want to sound harsh, I just want to present my preference. Peace. ☮ 😉

@Appenzeill, I always use Ctrl+Q to quit apps.

@turbine1991 top-bar is perfect for mouse-wheel workspace scroller (several extentions support "Top Bar Workspace Scrolling"). I'd like to see it as a "standard" feature

I use the top panel as a status bar, i.e. I put there information I want to see all the time (like cpu and ram usage, systray icons, battery/network/bt info, etc). I don’t want there to be anything else (like Activities button or app name). I used to want to have there the app menu (as Unity in Ubuntu had or macOS has), but I don’t think I’ll be implemented anymore.

The reason I say the top bar is a waste of space is not because I advocate removing it - but making it more useful. As there's only the status bar menu and date picker (the activities hotcorner is more of an icon).

Using the statusbar as a pull up/down for the activities overview and adding a non-intrusive launch menu makes sense. And allows you to have all of those status indicators. Better yet, there's still plenty of space for toggleable taskbar icons.

Achieved this on GNOME 3.36.8 combined with this extension as a replacement for hot corner. In my opinion, it's good to have a bottom focused layout so that the user only has to focus at bottom, instead of dividing focus at top (for top bar) and bottom (for dock).

@saaditory I dislike it, It is a strange Mix of Windows (bottom-bar+dash in left menu) and Mac (top-bar with dash bottom-center).

But I think this is exactly the point:

• "It is just about user taste"

Why not let the user choose ?

BUDGIE

MATE

XFCE4

**

I dislike it, It is a strange Mix of Windows (bottom-bar+dash in left menu) and Mac (top-bar with dash bottom-center).

I strongly do agree. The UX changes provided by GNOME 3 in the last decade show another way is possible: without having to mock or copy OS X or Windows. Even if their UX is good, this does not mean it’s the only, or the good, way.

To paraphrase: Think Different. This is what we need. But I trust people who have appropriate skills to offer something relevant, elegant and definitely useful.

Having the bar and the dash directly on top of each other doesn't really make sense IMHO. In this case it would be better to integrate the dash into the bar.

The simpler solution to address the mouse travel problems would be to make the dash a dock. This would make using GNOME3 more intuitive while retaining the basic design.

EDIT: Moving the center of the dash closer to the button that opens it (or the other way around in this case) reduces the necessary mouse travel but I think it still is one step too many. The problem with GNOME3 IMHO isn't just the mouse travel it is that you have to get through to many layers to get to stuff. Your favorite/active apps, the button for the activities overwiew and the button for the app menu should always be available without clicking on anything else first. So they should be in a bar or a dock (with or without auto-hide).

In "Dual-Monitor" setup, I find workspace interaction a little confusing ...

• "Next Workspace Preview" at right of left screen looks like a part of right screen on dual monitor
• "Top Workspace Pager" appears only when there are 2 or more active workspaces

A note:

In dual monitor setup, a top-right "hot-corner" on the right monitor would be a nice addition (maybe with extensions ...)

In the spirit of gnome 40 of evolving, not revolutionize and after seeing all the comments, and hearing in Linux unplugged how many users grew accustomed to Gnome shell and of how their eyes are instinctively focusing on the top bar I would prefer and suggest to keep, the current layout, removing the app menu, make the dash more prominent by taking it out of activities as an active dock (like dash to dock with the focus, minimize behavior) and adding a dynamic top bar, something like this

As you can see, this not only looks cleaner and less cluttered, but also easier on the eyes and more familiar for iOS, Mac and Windows users, it is the perfect blend between classic and familiar but distinctly GNOME

Same activities, same lack of desktop icons, same dash, same panel, just making the dash a mouse centric hub to multitasking which is enhanced by the activities view, the classic and amazing hub for keyboard and mouse multitasking, a perfect blend of new and classic, a perfect blend of keyboard mouse and touch

@sergioad Again it is matter of user preference,

• you prefer "Cupertino" layout,
• botton-bar fans are for "Redmond" layout.
• personally, I'm for “Gnome-III way”

@hute37 kind of right kind of wrong, I prefer the Redmond style, but if you want to keep the actual style and design language I was saying that it could not be easier than making the dash more prominent as a dock

I am pro Redmond style, but I was suggesting a way to follow a natural progression of what was proposed for gnome 40 and its design language, I was addressing what the initial proposal of a easier to read and more comfortable gnome shell without the app menu

In fact if I wanted a Cupertino layout I would have kept the app menu, moved to the right of the settings menu the clock, moved the app picker button to the left of the dash a la launchpad and removed the activities button but that was not the case, I could go even further adding the trash bin

In fact my proposal is for people like you who prefer tbe gnome 3 way, but improving it to new heights, the core of it being a desktop capable of everything, but in its own way, without deviation from its core principles, but addressing the main criticisms of the people

In fact, despite me not using Adwaita for the windows you can see in the screenshots how faithful my proposal is to the actual Gnome design language, and how the dash becomes into the cornerstone of the UX even in activities

Or... We could do something in between the original taskbar-less bottom panel proposal, the Redmond one, normal gnome 40, my previous proposal and the Cupertino style... Picture something like this

What this brings?

For keyboard users: everything you expect from Gnome For mouse users: a task bar always visible and a direct way to open the app picker, you also still have the old hot corner to open activities or slide up the dash For track pad users: all the gestures that GNOME 40 brought you plus everything for mouse For touch screen users: touch screen gestures plus a new way to go to activities sliding the dash

What do you think?

@sergioad I don't know why we would go for a taskbar which is essentially this big?

This kind of dock layouts always remind me of the Solaris design, which at least had a very functional dock.

@tobias.oelgarte maybe less thicker and with both text and icons centered in the panel thickness, but that is my concep, the idea is to unify everything in a single modern panel, maybe in the redesigned settings menu there could be a tablet mode with the thicker das and panel, but something like the initial panel concept but dynamic and with the dash embedded would be a nice UX

Furthermore the original redesign concept fits perfectly both with a mobile phone experience and with my proposed redesign of it, making the whole experience scalable from phones to pcs

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Gnome 40 is very cool, smooth and faster, with nice gestures. Many enthusiastic comments ... But, for me Gnome III used to fit like a glove: my use case is to use many maximized windows, on different workspaces, in dual monitor setup. Mouse-only. Task switch by workspace scroll.

Vertical layout was perfect:

• short mouse travel from top-left hot-corner and the left vertical dash
• Larger Vertical Pager on the right
• "Natural" vertical workspace scrolling
  • not confused with horizontal dual screen
  • mix well with mouse-wheel scrolling on top-bar (extension)
  • do not interfere with remote screen sessions (with horizontal workspace scroll)

I'll try Vertical Overview extension

We can agree that we disagree Giovani, I prefer GNOME 40, and a dock would solve your issue, thus... I see either of my recommendations or the task bar panel more fitting

I love this mock-up design! This will definitely reducing the mouse travelling and remove the confusion of having a notification list items under the "Calendar". The latter problem is pretty much the same as having the app menu under the "Activities" button. How "Calendar" and notification are related to each other? If not, why we need to click on the "Date/time" text (to show the "Calendar" pop-over) to access the notifications. Although, notifications have their time of arrivals. And not to mention that the floating notification (/notification bubbles) appears next to the "date/time" text, so, people may think if both is under the same (pop-over) group.

I love to have the status bar (/top bar) at the bottom. But unfortunately, people is still missing the "just reach to the right-top corner to close an app" due to GNOME apps have a padding around the close button. Although, this will be an issue for the ex-Windows users only. But wouldn't we love to see this behaviour in the GNOME shell as well?

I love when you're putting the notification bubbles to the right-bottom in conjunction with the move of the top bar. Really, for me, it made the notification bubble appearances more clear. Since most applications have their title bar or tool bar or tab bar or address bar, sometimes having the bubble appears at the center has been bothering me. Meanwhile, having the bubbles at the bottom and even further at the right-bottom corner is nicer, since not all applications implement a status bar at the bottom.

I also love when the search is now a pop-up. But I also think it's necessary to reference articles to make a decision between using modals or pages for our (this thread participants) consideration of making other design changes: https://uxplanet.org/modal-vs-page-a-decision-making-framework-34453e911129.

In my honest opinion, the replacement of the "Activities" button with the 3/6 dots is totally nicer. As being not a UX designer, I don't see the point of making the 3/6 dots more clear and prominent. I'd say that all of us always see that a three or more (vertical/horizontal) dots or lines is considered to be a menu!

Sadly, the real problem of having the 3/6 dots at the bottom-center is that people already get used to move their mouse "indifferently" to the top-left corner. I think, it's better to have it in the corner instead (it could be any corner, but has to be a corner), since we don't have to think of it when reaching it. While having it at the center will requires us to think whether our mouse cursor is already in the center or not. Unless, we expand the clickable width area of the 3/6 dots to let's say 2/3 of the screen's width.

One more thing (although this may be considered as an out-of-topic), I don't think that dropping the application menu is a good idea, as we still don't know which way is better to place a large number of menus if the tool bar isn't enough to hold them all. Indeed, this is my personal preference. But I don't think having the global application menu or something similar isn't a good idea. At least, in my personal opinion, having a global application menu rather than a local one looks more modern. To overcome the application menu that is too much, Windows has a ribbon UI, Mac has a global application, and KDE is still implementing a traditional windowing (I'd say a tool bar that is not replacing a title bar is a traditional, although, I think it is still a pretty good practice).

Please keep the user visible elements and interaction at the top, especially the top bar and keyboard interaction. I even would prefer the dash at the top. Thanks for experimenting on this but I don't favor this bottom focused layout.

Criticism is based on missing relevant options within GNOME. I suggest adding an option to choose the placement of the bar and dash (top or bottom). Users will appreciate it and it improves the usability of GNOME, which is then adaptable to the users preference.

+1 for reducing the mouse travel from the Activities top-left hot corner to the bottom-middle Favorite and Active applications.

+1 @bertob

Going away from mac layout for more recognizability [check]

App level controls and system level controls not close together during full screen [check]

OS related functions delegated to the lower region,so there is less moving the mouse back and forth while switching applications

while the App controls are delegated at the top, this is very nice because it's easier to click close button with mouse..

The original proposal is the best in my view, in the app grid view the ... button should open the workspaces view again

Really hope this is implemented some day in some form :)